It feels wrong having 'Canyon is Dead' permanently at the top of the general chat, especially at a time when Stadium & Valley should be bringing new players

It's all smok3y's fault. The topic was slowly fading away and then he bumped it.

Why not rename the topic title? A more appropriate title is: "Canyon currently has no unlimiter"

why do you even need unlimiter?

Hitchui says:
why do you even need unlimiter?

+1

For oversized Maps

Only the lack of skill, and/or ppl stuck in ancient stadium, will not be able to see the enormous potential that tm2unlimiter brings/brought to the game. Refer to these ingenious creations:

http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/17301/excruciator
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/7525/terrordrift
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/5777/downthetubes
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/5331/just-because
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/17717/screwdriver-ii-reactivation
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/37820/tight-and-tighter
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/24595/polish-screwdrivers-massacre
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/24896/drift-amp-shout
http://tm.mania-exchange.com/tracks/11714/divide-by-zero

These maps were made by three of the five most skilled mappers in TM2Canyon, and they all used tm2unlimiter. Look in the opposite direction and refer to the limited (and boring) creations in roc/100k, most leagues/esl, cups etc. Sure, 100k etc. keeps the average player / LP-hunter alive and motivated, but what about the rest? Nadeo is setting rough (and for me repulsive) limits for what the community can do with their game; a bad business idea by a company that was kept alive by a productive community. The sadistic limitations set by Nadeo has without doubt caused many wonderful creations never to be made. Additionally some talented creative content producers have been stripped for any positive relation they ever had with the Nadeo games. In exchange we get to have the mx portal filled up with mostly spam, close to 100%. Anyways, it was always obvious that Nadeo abandoned canyon just a few weeks after their alpha release (which they called final). Utterly disgusting.

If you shoot yourself you will end up injured or dead. If you shoot yourself many times, chances of survival is slim. Thus I'm not very surprised by canyon being what it is now, the same for valley, and the same for any recent Nadeo title.

You don't like unlimiter -> don't use it

I honestly think most people dislike it because they are intimidated by the possibilities it opens. (Which might require more creativity than you posses.)
this video explains it well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Th_3IM1XJw

... says:
But I love restrictions! It requires more creativity.

Shut up faggot. If you love restrictions so much, why don't you build 1x1x1 maps. You'll be drowning in awards and pussy for all the creativity you display. Right?

fallout says:

... says:
But I love restrictions! It requires more creativity.

Shut up faggot. If you love restrictions so much, why don't you build 1x1x1 maps. You'll be drowning in awards and pussy for all the creativity you display. Right?

Generally I agree. It requires more ingenuity in the default editor, but unlimiter does provide more possibilities (sheer mathematics).

However, I think that this anti-unlimiter banter is the wrong side of argument entirely. Let me explain.
As a third party program, it's great. It's position in the community is great, and it would just be a positive mod of the game, in a way. It can't be part of the game. Ever. Get over that.

The rare person doesn't argue for that. When such is true they're just usually asking someone to make a new tool. Whatever. I respect that.

Those who prefer unlimiter over the default editor indeed probably can seize its advantages better than those who do not. Perhaps they can even make better tracks.

Those who absolutely refuse to build without unlimiter: That right there is called stubbornness.



Now, don't get me wrong just yet. The editor hasn't changed too much either, it just exemplifies a legacy that's being caught up on extremely fast. (In other words, it's been shiny-ed many a time, but much of the external game market now builds off the demand for editors and is catching up, some might even have passed).


It's kind of Nadeo's fault, for lack of change and/or improvement to the editing experience, but it's happening. The community filled that gap that new games and sequels are supposed to provide with unlimiter, and so when its (lets put this metaphorically) 'developer' died, and took the game with them, well, everyone knows the rest.

With valley, new light's been shone on the idea of an actual new trackbuilding tool to the editor. Perhaps only slightly, but it happened.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In short, read the whole passage if your going to bother at all
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those who love the TM editor stick with the community because of the type of editor. Those who love unlimiter think a sequel should actually change gameplay. I think everyone thinks that, and everyone has come to terms with the fact that Nadeo's supply of that is sub-standard.

Acceptance is the variable.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

There's a lot of banter of my own there. Make of it what you wish.

Tomme your point is not only absolutely and positively wrong, but also a poor attempt at bumping a thread that was already dying. I refer to previous comments. Thank you and good night.

this has always been my stance towards block mixing: if you do it well, then I have no problem. I'm still hoping for the same basic criteria, though: does it flow together well? does anything feel forced or broken? etc

90% of the time however, people block-mix for the sake of it. They don't actually do anything interesting with it, and they think the track carries itself just by the fact it's got some unusual stuff going on with it. you can be creative, but if you don't make something smooth or capable of being driven, then I won't give you credit.

the best course of action i think is to use block-mixing sparingly and use it as function over form. there's being creative and then there's just spamming a bunch of blocks into each other.