Maybe let others do the judging part, but he hosting and theme was good, I think

FT»lolig says:
I'm gonna tell you that lodec is right,
first off all the judges aren't skilled to start with... (try to ask a baby to say: Trackmania united) (this is almost the same, the word maybe looks like it but it isn't that word)

What must a player achieve in order to qualify? I've got a gold medal on all tracks of all Nadeo campaigns (TMUF, TM2:Canyon and TM2:Platform). The black ones are supposed to be super hard; if anyone builds tracks that require more skill than that, then I'm sorry, but that's just their own fault. A simile, if you will: Mel Gibson shot the movie "The Passion" in old Arameic language, but he at least provided English subtitles so that people can understand what's going on. He didn't say "Well it's your problem if you don't speak Arameic" :-) Likewise, if someone builds a super-hard track and if it's impossible for someone who beat the game to finish that track, then something's not right.
But OK, we may try asking the 3 top skill drivers to judge MTC, they will decline, and then MTC is over with. :-)

FT»lolig says:
well alcator and pjw everyone owns you more than one for hosting this mtc but try to judge like it is needed and not judge with your own preferences and stuff like that,

Actually, I told pjw before the judging that he would have absolute judging freedom, including to set his own criteria. If you open the judging sheet, you can see that we had different criteria. pjw completely removed the criteria concerning "Up section" and "Down section", he also had different limits for Scenery, Layout etc. As long as a judge applies the same criteria to all tracks, it's OK.

FT»lolig says:
if you judge you must be able to put away your own thoughts and judge objective!

You keep using that word, "objective". I don't think it means what you think it means. By definition, JUDGING is always subjective, and can only be made into more "objective" by averaging it with opinions of multiple other judges. "Objectivity" can only be achieved via MEASUREMENTS -- speed, length, duration, weight... As soon as an autonomous intelligent entity is assessing something against a set of criteria, then those criteria are always going to be subjective.

FT»lolig says:
next time please keep this in your minds, and try to jugde like it is needed, and not like you guys did now,

I was really surprised when I saw that we agreed on the Top 3 tracks (correction: Top 2 tracks), despite judging independently. I didn't see pjw's ratings until I finished with my own. What you're complaining about, I think, is that we applied wider range of criteria than just "Is it smooth?" One reason for that is there was a THEME to this MTC, the other is that eg. I followed the concept of making Trackmania accessible to the masses, so I did give extra points to tracks that are learnable and beatable in a reasonable time. You're of course free to disagree and/or show us next time a different approach, but that's how it went, and every track had it the same. In fact, I warned everyone beforehand that Learning Curve will be a factor -- it's right there in the first post, from the very beginning.

FT»lolig says:
ps who has readed the word smooth in the comment from lodec? (I didn't! even in any other comment) also the layout comments only thing I read: WOW, cool, awesome.... nothing more, the bad in your eyes tracks got a long comment there, why not the good ones? can't anyone know what you guys like? no? well that is a proof of you guys being not objective!

Quote from my "review": LAYOUT: If I were to look for a word that describes the map, I'd say "Esoteric". The different sections are like from some other, ethereal dimension, totally unlike anything others have submitted for the competition. From this perspective, deserves full mark.
While I did not use the word SMOOTH, I gave Lodec the full score for the actual layout of the race track. I couldn't possibly give him more. He also received full score for Scenery, for the "Up" section and for the "Down" section. In other words, the building aspect and part of the design was rated as high as possible. The reason why his track eventually dropped were most of the other aspects -- poor placement of Checkpoints (20 seconds apart), lack of signs, some of the jumps which were "make-or-break"... Others managed to get these things significantly better, that's all.

===

However, if I host any future MTCs, I will try to get more judges and also to not judge myself (or perhaps be one of 5 judges, which would then mean we eliminate the best and worst score and only use the middle 3). I will certainly be contacting you, lolig, with an offer of judging ;-)

Alcator says:
But OK, we may try asking the 3 top skill drivers to judge MTC, they will decline, and then MTC is over with. :-)

I'm not top3, but I would rate myself over average. I can probably be a judge in MTC February if I dont have too much stuff going on.

Alcator says:

FT»lolig says:
if you judge you must be able to put away your own thoughts and judge objective!

You keep using that word, "objective". I don't think it means what you think it means. By definition, JUDGING is always subjective, and can only be made into more "objective" by averaging it with opinions of multiple other judges. "Objectivity" can only be achieved via MEASUREMENTS -- speed, length, duration, weight... As soon as an autonomous intelligent entity is assessing something against a set of criteria, then those criteria are always going to be subjective.

I was going to write something very similar to this, and then I saw that Alcator said it for me.

As far as driving skill goes, I'm certainly not new to Trackmania either. I've built hundreds of tracks and I also have gold on most tracks except black ones. (TM1 and TM2) I'm perfectly capable of driving hard tracks--try some of my "Way Too Hard For You!" platform tracks for TM1 if you want a challenge.

This isn't purely about difficulty, it's about difficulty combined with the fact that I didn't find your track enjoyable to drive, and gave some reasons why in my feedback. You obviously don't agree, and that's okay. We're different people; that's how that works.

Edit: One more thing--say whatever you wish about me, or bad judging or whatever. I'm not bothered. But when you start talking about "bad builders" and "noob maps" and "preschoolers", that says a lot more about your own immaturity than it does about any of the other contestants. Perhaps you should work on building better manners?